AC Motor Choice

[Arno]

After perusing this site for a while, I have now decided to build a new racing simulation platform.
I am thinking putting a motor on each corner of a seat/pedals platform, not sure if that makes it a 4dof or not.

Like most everybody here, while I am dreaming looking at some of the very expensive components that can be purchased right now with a simple swipe of my credit card, I unfortunately do not have this luxury.
I will be buying from ebay and the likes.
I figured that since I am not buying of the shelf,it would be preferable to start by finding the motor and gearbox I am going to use, and build from there since the electronics are fairly consistent after that. AMC, etc...

While I would probably have been quite happy with wiper motors for a first simulator, I figured that I might as well start with something a bit more powerful.

Based on this, i just purchased my gear boxes.
Found a new old stock which was attractive in price.
I hope that the choice was wise...
I talked to Emerson and they indicated that the rpm at the input could be higher since the duty will be pretty low in prospective.

Specs say 0.9HP at 1750rpm on the motor side.
25:1 Ratio.
These are quite big, it is a Frame 56C motor size

TorQube1.jpg (498.02 KiB) Viewed 11171 times

TorQube2.jpg (572.23 KiB) Viewed 11171 times

I am now on my quest to finding an AC motor to fit those.
It appears that there are many choices to go with...
I will be looking for something around 1HP to 2HP or so.
I am in the USA, so 115V AC single phase is the norm here, or I can purchase some inverters to take a 3 phase motor.

Can ALL AC motors can be turning CW and CCW?
I understand that inverted Duty is better, but is it a must?
Standard 1HP motors are about $80 on ebay...

Thank you.
Arno

Edit:Typo

[Arno]

For example, would this motor work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-HP-3600-RPM-1 ... 53eb9b1957

This could make a good sim platform with 4 of them I think.
1HP, 3600rpm (/25=144rpm gearbox output)
Reversible
Works on 115V, do we even need then an inverter?

Thank you for your help.

Edit: After looking for a while, this motor would fit the bill well, IF it is OK for our application in terms of control...

[Arno]

Or this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dayton-3-4-HP-I ... 5aeac4a468

Although the rpm is a bit low...

[Arno]

I am getting from the principle that an AC motor will give me less hassle (in the 1HP range or so) than an equivalent DC 24V motor for example.
The amps we are dealing with are lower, and there is no need for expensive/fragile power supplies.
(Would it be actually even more suitable/powerful for our application)

After doing some research, more like head scratching, here is what would help me in my research:

1- Is an AC motor more suitable than a DC motor (24V) for a simulator?
2- Does an AC motor have to be single phase or three phase to work with our needs and controllers?
3- Are all AC motors reversible (for our application)?
4- What are the quality of an AC motor that we are looking for? (Inverter Duty?)
5- If an AC motor works on Single Phase 115V, is it suitable for our needs?
3- Can any AC motor that fits the requirements above be used? (What are the caveats to be aware of?)

I have looked at more motors tonight than I ever have before.
The questions I listed there will really help me find the proper motors.

It seems that Marathon and similar brands have motors that look like they "should" work, for about $100-$150 or so.
This here seems great too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elektrimax-56C- ... 2567a5e73e
But without the proper knowledge, I could be purchasing expensive door steps...

THANK YOU to whomever takes the time to educate me here, it is a bit confusing.
If you have a good resource for me to read, I am all ears.

Arno

[Arno]

Some updates:

Thanks to Vicpopo, I was able to get some information on what to get and not...

AC or DC?
For obvious reasons, DC requires more amps, and is inherently more dangerous.
Furthermore, for bigger power outputs, the motors are quite a bit bigger.
AC is a good choice here.

Single phase or 3-phase?
It appears that 3-phase is the way to go.
This will require an inverter that can convert the USA 115V single phase into 220V 3-phase.
Not inexpensive, but necessary.

Motor Power?
It seems that 250W to 500W would be sufficient in 3-phase configurations.
Since they are quite cheap here, I am going for a 1HP or about 750W motor.

GearBox choices.
Jury is still out on this one.
While it makes sense to have a good speed output at the gearbox output shaft, speed is not everything, especially when loaded.
It was suggested that 15rpm would be sufficient, provided that the motor can move quickly under load.
I am investigating this, because it would seem to me that this would be quite slow to reproduce quick feedback.

More to come...

PS: Vicpopo, sent you a PM reply, but it still shows in my outbox, not sure if it got delivered or not...

[vicpopo]

Hi ,
For the inverter in France it powered on single phase 220 v and it supllies 3 phase 220v to the motor.
I suppose if you power supply the inverter with single phase 110 v it will give 3 phase 110 to the motor , not 3 phase 220v.
Best Regards

NB: For DC motors my opinion is to use a large car battery if you want to use more motors .It has 2 big advantages :
1- you always got all the Amperes you need for motion
2- you are not connected to the current home net . Current protection 10A for little devices and 16 A or 32 A for all devices for cooking , washmachine etc...

[Arno]

Thanks!
It makes sense.
I also have a 220V single phase in the house, so I can use that for the simulator.
Arno

[Arno]

Any reason why this motor would not be a good choice?
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/motor ... 0rpm-motor

It has 230V 3Ph.
2HP
1800rpm (A tad high, but it will do for now)
Inverter Duty rated
Insulation Class F (Needed I think for our application, or not?)
Winding connection is double Wye/Wye. Is this OK? What are we needing here?

Thank you.
Arno

[Arno]

More research, and more questions...

Why do we need 3 phases?
I can find plenty of reversible 1phase AC motors, about 1HP (750W).
Prices are very cheap.

I am not sure I understand the 3phase relation to our simulation need.
Is this needed for being able to drive the motors?
Is the VFD (driven by the AMC board) what allows us to control torque, speed and direction?
ANSWER (maybe): After looking further, it seems that we need the 3 Phases for the VFD control indeed...

Is an AC 1Phase motor not drivable (almost) directly from the AMC board?

Example of a 0.75HP motor here:
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/motor ... p-1100-rpm

Sorry if the questions seem silly, I am trying to understand.

Thank you for your time educating me.
Arno

[vicpopo]

More research, and more questions...

Why do we need 3 phases?
I can find plenty of reversible 1phase AC motors, about 1HP (750W).
Prices are very cheap.

It's a question of dimension .As I said to you If you want for example a motor with 550 Watt.If you choose a single phase , it will be bigger than the other driven in 3 Phases.And in a real world if the motor is bigger , that mean more aluminium,more copper, more steel inside so a highest cost.A 3 phases motor ( with the same manufacturer obviously) is cheaper as a single phase for the same power requested.That mean lower efficiency.
And often for converting a 3 phase motor to a single phase we put big capacitors to create the missing phase.
There are also motors which are directly wired in a single phase but as it's not the upper production volume (industry needs 3 phase motors) these motors are more expensive usually.

I am not sure I understand the 3phase relation to our simulation need.
Is this needed for being able to drive the motors?
Is the VFD (driven by the AMC board) what allows us to control torque, speed and direction?

In our case the VFD doesn't control anything,all is controled by the AMC .AMC is like a axis card.
What make the VFD : just going every ms (function of the amc speed) to the setpoints given by the amc and driving motors in 3 phase
The VFD can make supervision for speed , temperature ....But it's just supervision

ANSWER (maybe): After looking further, it seems that we need the 3 Phases for the VFD control indeed...

Is an AC 1Phase motor not drivable (almost) directly from the AMC board?

For sure NO , you need an inverter , and usually the inverter needs 3 signals for driving the motor.
0-10v for the setpoint
2 signals for direction in 24volts
And if you need an inverter , it's logical to buy 3 phase motor because that's the inverter job.
There is peharps other solutiions but I don't know them.