Driver position + body masses

[yokoyoko]

Hi,

I want to open a sperate topic to this interesting area. BobBuilt translated a document (thx) and so I (and hopefully others) will continue here.

I often see comercial simrigs where you sit like it is a bus or a van. The pedals are way low. I really don't understand why so many people do that. Even in a VW Lupo I sit 'lower' than many (costly) simracing cockpit rigs you can buy. In a corvette or ferrari you sit pretty damn low in the car with your upper legs comming out of the seat at an angle.

A example of bus driver sim rigs, usually dubious wheel positoin / ergonomics too:

If you look at real racecar construction - "the aim is to facilitate the driver's control of the vehicle and still keep the center of gravity as low as possible."

95% 50% 5% of male humans would look like this if you trust DIN 33402

statistic.PNG (168.34 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

The next picture shows reference values ​​for a sitting position, as it can be planned as a touring car:

driver1-english.png (145.9 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

Some drivers want in mountain racing or rallye stuff a fairly upright seating position for better visibility like here:

bergrennen.PNG (230.02 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

Since the aerodynamics has gained a dominant role in motor vehicle, the same philosophy as in production cars in the design has arrived to race cars: The design from the outside, ie, the external form is defined first by aerodynamic considerations and "windkanalvoruntersuchungen" and all parts must then be accommodated within that of the experiments.
You will get some comfortabel positions :
modern F1

formel_1.PNG (116.56 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

f1_2.PNG (122.39 KiB) Viewed 3119 times

modern Lms car

gt_1.PNG (118.95 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

prosport3000.PNG (519.06 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

bentley exp speed 8.PNG (561 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

However, it must not be missing a certain amount of ergonomics in the cockpit design. Many vehicle dynamics advantages of a vehicle can not be played if the driver can not sit through a cramp free full race distance. f.e. the foot should have three pedals at the lower limit about 305 mm clearance

The steering wheel is one of the main actuators in the vehicle and the driver must be well served. In this context especially the location of the steering wheel relative to the seat is important. For cars leads to the next image on the most important standardized dimensions. The normal position of the hand is such that the lower edge of the hand to rest on the middle of the steering wheel.

pkw-din.PNG (127.41 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

All measurements refer to the R point. The R point (seating reference point) is fixed to the vehicle, and corresponds to the H-point hip point) of the passengers in the rear third of the seat.


Here are some masses of single body parts (or pairs) - perhaps this is useful if someone would calc. the cg. of his seatmover setup (platform) or else:

masse körper.PNG (84.13 KiB) Viewed 3121 times

a link on calculations: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrischer_Schwerpunkt

Hope you will share some of your experience on this topic.

Best regards
yokoyoko

[motiondave]

Nice post yoko, but with sim buildng, whats real and whats actually can be put in place is two different things.
If you have the room for a long sim, then build it.
But also personal preference is a factor as well.
As you know, I have built several configurations, and all gave good feeling to racing. viewtopic.php?f=37&t=159
My most recent build, the foot motor mount sim , is like the one pictured above.
It works really well for leverage and is compact.
its relatively easy to get in and out of and , yes you are sitting more upright.
More like my street cars that I used to have.

The actuator sim is more difficult to get in and out. Its like I have a full cage around it, the way I have to navigate getting in and out.
However, my legs are more up , like a race car. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=605

So my point is that, for me, I am 6"3" tall but I have limited room for overall length. I have to restrict to 1.2m total length, and that also allows for some extra lean on the seat, so maybe add 150 total length.

Thats my 2 pennys worth, allowing for exchange rate.

[yokoyoko]

So my point is that, for me, I am 6"3" tall but I have limited room for overall length. I have to restrict to 1.2m total length, and that also allows for some extra lean on the seat, so maybe add 150 total length.

Thats my 2 pennys worth, allowing for exchange rate.

Hi Dave, I can totally understand your point! I just wanted to share my experience on this subject, because I had to find that a "good" cockpit ergonomics is not as easy to find as I tought. What "good" actually means on this subject everybody has to decide on his own.

But also personal preference is a factor as well.

For sure not everybody wants to build a race car sim. And additional it's hard to have both a "modern open wheeler" sim and a "touring car style" sim in one unit. Perhaps someone is just interested in flight sims? ... and so on

and all gave good feeling to racing.

I think this is an individual experience. Other would say immersion is kind of destroyed with a bus position in a touring car - perhaps it depends on your fantasy

its relatively easy to get in and out of

does it bother racers? only joking