Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby floriske » Thu 4. Oct 2012, 13:13

The speed difference is most noticable in the vertical force (bumps, curbs etc.).

The wiper motors sometimes had troubles with these fast repeating movements, I had to increase the values for vertical force to compensate for this which resulted in an increasing error, but a better feel.

For the rest the speed is coherrent to the actual game values, a car doesn't tip over instantly when taking a corner, neither does the sim, so for these movements the speed difference won't be very noticable because the software regulates the speed.

On the video I'm still using the increased values, that's why the bumps look more like waves instead of actual bumps.

All in all like motiondave mentions: I've got a lot of tweaking to do, this was just a first test.

A few friends of mine drive racecars (jeroentje.nl tuning team)and one of them is very good with everything that has to do with electronics as well so he will help me to get everything as realistic as possible.
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby Riton » Thu 4. Oct 2012, 13:41

this was not a negative review, however, I just wanted to compare it caught my eye, the difference in speed compared to the speed output of our various engines.

Although the settings are important and the result must be adjusted to suit everyone

Thanks ;)
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby motiondave » Thu 4. Oct 2012, 14:41

I had a though Floriske, you said you tuned the PID using test sliders.
May I suggest going back to a base setting as Bob says and adjust motion and PID there, you may have better results.
4/4 0/3 4/4, max accel 350, max duty cycle 350 and work from there.
I only ever used the test sliders to make sure motors were reacting through x-sim.
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby floriske » Thu 4. Oct 2012, 15:02

Riton wrote:this was not a negative review, however, I just wanted to compare it caught my eye, the difference in speed compared to the speed output of our various engines.

Although the settings are important and the result must be adjusted to suit everyone

Thanks ;)

Wasn't taken as negative ;) just to try and make clear that the biggest difference is in the fast motions like bumps, a wiper motor will need more time to reach it's target in these movements.

e.g. a wiper of 60 rpm with a 5cm arm theoretically travels from top to bottom in 0.5s so as long as this speed isn't asked by the game there is no problem.

but with bumps sometimes it requires "instant" movement.

Here's a theoretical sample, this does not represent the actual curve of a sim, but it should explain the difference:



The grey line represents the wanted position, the red line the actual motor movement.

• If a motor is too slow it will never reacht it's destination because it's direction gets inverted before it's in position
• If a motor is only just fast enough it will reach it's destination but delayed
• If a motor is fast it will reacht it's destination close to the desired point

The problem with fast motors is that we have to "tame" them so they won't move too fast/harsh on subtle movement and won't overshoot, that's where PID (which is still sort of abracadabra to me as well) comes in.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby Riton » Thu 4. Oct 2012, 15:15

Yes, this is perfect, thank you for this diagram!
this is the PID that makes good tradeoff between speed and accuracy.

you can probably go faster.

Anyway, we should miss positions ....
In my case, I'm fast, but I feel that it lacks feeling sometimes ...
I do not know where is the cause of this feeling of lack of precision in the effects.

I feel like I could do better and have better feelings.


it would be interesting to xsim in real time, the actual position of the motor with the effect to see if it is late or not
Last edited by floriske on Thu 4. Oct 2012, 16:47, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Please use the edit button next time ;)
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby floriske » Thu 4. Oct 2012, 16:46

Riton wrote:it would be interesting to xsim in real time, the actual position of the motor with the effect to see if it is late or not


If you are using JRK's you can actually see this (amongst other values) in the small diagram in the top right of the JRK utility (click to enlarge it) I don't think it's possible in X-Sim itself
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby motiondave » Fri 5. Oct 2012, 11:30

I definitely get more motion from faster motors. Heaps more than the wipers I used to use.
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby floriske » Fri 5. Oct 2012, 11:35

motiondave wrote:I definitely get more motion from faster motors. Heaps more than the wipers I used to use.

My point exactly!
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby Turn » Sun 14. Oct 2012, 20:20

Hey floriske, can I ask what the item I've circled in red is, please? And what exactly is its function and need for it? My electronics knowledge is not great, but it looks important :) Thanks!



Nice board layout, btw, very tidy. And the mechanics of the rig itself - very pro!
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Re: Floriske.nl's 2DOF Playseat GT Wiper motor Project

Postby floriske » Sun 14. Oct 2012, 20:46

Thanks for the compliments!

The part you circled is the power adapter for the usb hub. I removed the housing (just like I did with the hub itself) so it fits the general looks better.
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